tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5274291.post7011709431925004694..comments2023-10-30T09:45:32.994-05:00Comments on The Musings of Kev: The Syndicate Vanguard?Kevhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01433235586096305061noreply@blogger.comBlogger6125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5274291.post-38891291787781798992008-09-22T14:59:00.000-05:002008-09-22T14:59:00.000-05:00I'm with Murphy on this one. I had stopped going t...I'm with Murphy on this one. I had stopped going to the Syndicate in the past because it was like $1 cheap beer night at your local bar. I wanna hear the music. I want to hear my friends play. I don't want to overhear conversations about the health of your neighbor's dog in the middle of a solo.<BR/><BR/>Besides, even though UNT is a "serious music school", some of those people may never get to play in a setting like the Vanguard.. and never get to experience people -really- listening to them play, which is an amazing feeling. It'd be a nice thing for them to experience that at least once in their lives. It's something you never forget.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5274291.post-73420906981253703112008-09-17T20:10:00.000-05:002008-09-17T20:10:00.000-05:00KM: I've seen some people who are even reluctant t...KM: <I>I've seen some people who are even reluctant to greet their friends when they walk in the door; there's tension in the air, as if anything above a whisper will earn a rebuke.</I><BR/>That's just the initial shock of coming into a place that you expect to have the vibe of a frat-house basement on keg night and finding instead a jazz club where people are having serious fun by paying close attention to music. They'll get used to it.<BR/><BR/>KM: <I>Learning to play amid distractions seems to me to be a valid part of one's instruction as a professional musician, because it's definitely out there in the so-called real world.</I><BR/>All the more reason to have a place where the music is the main thing. The Syndicate is not where people need to learn that. They can do that on their gigs. <BR/><BR/>KM: <I>Is it more effective to change the culture all at once by executive decree (as has been done here), or over time, by the very type of discussion that you're welcoming in these pages, with input from many voices (faculty and students alike)?</I><BR/>The previous situation was intolerable. The start of a new academic year is the right time to make a change.<BR/><BR/>KM: <I>The word "boycott" leaving the lips of so many (as in "I'm only going to show up here on the nights that I play"), and the mere handful of people in attendance at evening's end last week (if it's this small for the Two O'Clock, I shudder to think what it might be like for some of the other bands later on).</I><BR/>That would be really smart: travel to UNT to study at a serious music school, then boycott the campus jazz club because the emphasis has been returned to where it belongs: on the music. You exaggerate again the smallness of the audience at the end of last week's gig. There were more than a "mere handful."<BR/><BR/>Listen, I want people to enjoy themselves at the Syndicate and I will make announcements tonight that emphasize this. There's a place where you can do what you want while you play or listen to music: your house. When I was a student, we had sessions in people's houses. We didn't wait for the university to provide every musical occasion. <BR/><BR/>If students had gone to the Marchel Ivery benefit last Sunday at Sandaga Jazz, a cultural space in Dallas, they would have found an audience of adults who are serious jazz fans. During the breaks they socialized. During the music, they kept talking to a minimum and listened to the music. Nobody had to lecture them. They just knew that this is how you behave when music is the main thing. They know that from having been to serious jazz clubs. Not serious in the sense of solemn, but serious in the sense of "we are here to listen to jazz musicians make art." How did they know what? From having been socialized into a jazz community that share the value of making the music the main thing. I am consciously intervening in the UNT student jazz community to reinforce a fundamental value that the faculty share: the music is the main thing. This is not just an academic attitude. My son went to hear the Ahmad Jamal Trio at the Regatta Bar in Cambridge, Mass. last spring. At one point Jamal stopped when the audience was too loud and said "We don't play for talkers." Getting deeply involved in listening to music is serious fun. Getting distracted from that by people who insist on going "Whooo!!!" after every high trumpet note is a drag. Would you do that at the Vanguard? at Birdland? I don't think so. <BR/><BR/>Thanks for promoting a debate on this.<BR/><BR/>Talk to you later. I'm getting on my bike to head to the Union.John Murphyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06134572376176611740noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5274291.post-13149302542958434842008-09-16T23:48:00.000-05:002008-09-16T23:48:00.000-05:00John, I had a feeling you might see this post at s...John, I had a feeling you might see this post at some point, since you've been a Musings reader in the past. I had hoped to respond to you that same day, but there's been a lot on my plate this week, and I wanted to give this the time and thought that it deserves.<BR/><BR/>(Your quotes in italics:)<BR/><BR/><I>No, it hasn't been closed. People can still have fun and clap and cheer for solos. What we're eliminating are the excesses. We're not trying to make it like a classical concert.</I>"<BR/><BR/>Perhaps this needs some more detailed explanation, then; I think people may be under the impression that you are trying to do just that. I've seen some people who are even reluctant to greet their friends when they walk in the door; there's tension in the air, as if anything above a whisper will earn a rebuke.<BR/><BR/><I>Are you suggesting we should use the Syndicate as training for being ignored while playing in restaurants? That's not why we do it.</I><BR/><BR/>Of course not. But that could provide one more opportunity for a teachable moment: Playing with energy and intensity even when the crowd isn't paying attention. As I said in the original post, at least the Syndicate crowd has always clapped for solos; to me, an overly-enthusiastic crowd (even to the point of being obnoxious) is easier to play for than one that's completely indifferent (as in the restaurants). Learning to play amid distractions seems to me to be a valid part of one's instruction as a professional musician, because it's definitely out there in the so-called real world.<BR/><BR/><I>I wonder how many people who shout "Machito" have ever listened to a recording by the real Machito (Frank Grillo) and his band. If they did they wouldn't like the Kenton "Machito" as much.</I><BR/><BR/>Aha--your inner musicologist is showing (where "musicologist" equals "gives off the air of looking down on a piece of music just because it's popular"). I decided to fire up some recordings by the real Machito while typing these responses, and yes, it's great. But so is the Rugolo chart; it's a two-minute, eighteen-second ball of energy. Besides, the music world is big enough for both Machitos; it doesn't have to be an either/or situation.<BR/><BR/><I>You've exaggerated the policy in order to critique it.</I><BR/><BR/>Well, I've been known to exaggerate to make a point. ;-) But...there are two groups of people that probably <I>do</I> feel like they're in Sunday school in the "new" Syndicate: The ones who were never the "major perpetrators" of the heckling, but were just (IMHO) letting off steam every now and then; and the non-music-major friends of the performers who, as I said earlier, might become new jazz fans if the atmosphere was a little more welcoming to those who aren't "serious" listeners yet.<BR/><BR/><I>I have intervened in the audience behavior at the Syndicate in order to make what happens there consonant with what the faculty and the (serious) students value most: the quality of the musical experience.</I><BR/><BR/>I guess that's one of the main questions running through my head at the moment: Is it more effective to change the culture all at once by executive decree (as has been done here), or over time, by the very type of discussion that you're welcoming in these pages, with input from many voices (faculty and students alike)?<BR/><BR/><I>Kevin, I appreciate your support for the jazz program and your regular attendance at the Syndicate and other events. Thanks for raising the issue for discussion and for noting positive aspects of the new policy along with the negative ones.</I><BR/><BR/>Even though (as you can tell) I have a healthy dose of skepticism about the effectiveness of this approach, I really tried hard to be balanced in my post, because I really do think those on both sides of the issue have vaild points. <BR/><BR/>And yes, I've tried to be a supportive alumnus; my current ties to the program will likely continue into the foreseeable future for two reasons: So many of you on the current faculty are former schoolmates of mine, and I teach at a school that--to invoke a baseball metaphor--serves as a Triple-A farm club for UNT and other major schools. I definitely enjoy watching alumni of my program come up there and succeed.<BR/><BR/>And the things I've seen the past few weeks have me more than a little concerned: The word "boycott" leaving the lips of so many (as in "I'm only going to show up here on the nights that I play"), and the mere handful of people in attendance at evening's end last week (if it's this small for the Two O'Clock, I shudder to think what it might be like for some of the other bands later on). I really hope that maybe this is just the proverbial pendulum swinging over to one extreme from another before eventually landing somewhere in the middle; only time will tell.<BR/><BR/>Again, thanks for the responses, and I welcome even more; I'm happy to host a discussion of the subject here (and I've pointed people to this forum in today's post as well).Kevhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01433235586096305061noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5274291.post-90232176610972696552008-09-16T23:43:00.000-05:002008-09-16T23:43:00.000-05:00I may be biased. When I got here, one of the firs...I may be biased. When I got here, one of the first things I was subjected to was the heckling. I thought it was funny, as a stranger; especially noting how the musicians took it, for they relationship between musician and heckler is quite friendly. I understand both points of view, and honestly, I don't really have an issue either way - but I really think it should be up to the musicians performing, more so for small groups.<BR/>If the groups are interacting in a comical way, I think it's really quite okay for the audience to do the same. They're college students, and I trust that they can draw the line; which often comes when someone overuses a "standard" heckle and it goes without response. I've seen that to work itself out a handful of times before.<BR/>I think what might be more of the problem is the younger community there which comes as guests with those who are regulars. They interpret the small talk during the song as free reign to continue a long drawn out conversation over normal talking levels that slowing builds to an uncomfortable level for some.<BR/>I say, do as they wish, but do what "the people" want. There are plenty of places around town that will get you the different listening levels one may desire. It's best related, possibly to a movie:<BR/>I hate going to movies, mainly because I can't stand what those who have no self control do with themselves during a movie. Blinding cell phone lights, constant murmuring, chuckling when not appropriate really inhibits my ability to "get into" the movie. However, the occassional sipping of drinks, crunching of snacks, and audience participation (laughing, crying, screaming, etc.) becomes part of the movie element. A nice balance, I feel, would be best.<BR/>But I'm all for majorities, even as a minority.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5274291.post-43415379844108699322008-09-14T14:08:00.000-05:002008-09-14T14:08:00.000-05:00Comment continued:Kevin, I appreciate your support...Comment continued:<BR/>Kevin, I appreciate your support for the jazz program and your regular attendance at the Syndicate and other events. Thanks for raising the issue for discussion and for noting positive aspects of the new policy along with the negative ones.<BR/>JohnJohn Murphyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06134572376176611740noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5274291.post-77485171846616791302008-09-14T12:38:00.000-05:002008-09-14T12:38:00.000-05:00Hi Kevin,I'm the author of the policy, which I cre...Hi Kevin,<BR/>I'm the author of the policy, which I created after extensive consultation with the faculty, including Neil Slater. The jazz faculty support it. If they didn't, they'd tell me. They're an outspoken group.<BR/>You write: "The pressure is extreme on occasion, and Lab Band Night is perhaps the one time during the week that these students can blow off steam and have a little fun. Now that avenue has been closed,..."<BR/>No, it hasn't been closed. People can still have fun and clap and cheer for solos. What we're eliminating are the excesses. We're not trying to make it like a classical concert.<BR/><BR/>You write: "While the new Syndicate policy is undoubtedly a reaction to that situation as well, it doesn't teach the musicians how to deal with adversity--such as the guy at the front table selling stocks on his BlackBerry during the bass solo--later on."<BR/>Are you suggesting we should use the Syndicate as training for being ignored while playing in restaurants? That's not why we do it.<BR/>You write: "From where I sit, the heckling is usually funny 99% of the time." From where I sit, it's tiresome and repetitive. The reponses to trumpet high notes approach the Pavlovian. I wonder how many people who shout "Machito" have ever listened to a recording by the real Machito (Frank Grillo) and his band. If they did they wouldn't like the Kenton "Machito" as much.<BR/>You write: "But the jazz audience may never grow if college kids are expected to act like they're in Sunday school while they're listening to it." You've exaggerated the policy in order to critique it. Enthusiastic applause and cheers at the end of tunes is welcome. What is not welcome is the sort of heckling and repetitious shouting-out that takes the focus off the music, where it belongs, and puts it on people who think they're being clever by shouting something from the back of the room that has been shouted many times before. It's a bore.<BR/>If this policy is perceived as returning the focus to the music, then it will be a success. If it is perceived as trying to impose a classical-music code of audience behavior in a jazz-club setting, then it has been misunderstood. As an ethnomusicologist, I'm fully aware that audience behavior varies over time and in different settings. I have intervened in the audience behavior at the Syndicate in order to make what happens there consonant with what the faculty and the (serious) students value most: the quality of the musical experience.<BR/>I would welcome more discussion of this topic. Students don't need to do it anonymously. <BR/>John Murphy<BR/>interim chair<BR/>Division of Jazz StudiesJohn Murphyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06134572376176611740noreply@blogger.com